Defending Thamesmead and Abbey Wood

One of the frustrating things about living in Thamesmead is the way that if people have heard of it at all, they tend to have heard bad things. I guess to some extent this blog is a one-person attempt at propaganda to reverse that view. Well, not entirely – I’m not going to heap praise on things I don’t like and will be perfectly vocal about shortcomings. For example, I’m far more likely to go to Woolwich or Dartford than to Thamesmead Town because it just doesn’t offer a town centre experience.

Anyway, upon my travels around the web I chanced across somebody asking what Abbey Wood is like on Yahoo Questions. I thought I’d share my response here as well:

Question:
Is abbey wood in S.E
London a good area?is there any good primary and secondary schools? Does this area have racial problems?gangs?I have forster childrens who are black,I don’t want any harm coming to them.many thanks

Answer:
Abbey Wood is right next to Thamesmead, which has a dire reputation, which is not entirely deserved. People will say it is rough, but find some postcodes and do some checks yourself before blithely accepting the reputation. This site is very useful, for example:
http://www.crimerates.co.uk/
I tried putting in both Ealing, London and Thamesmead and the story that comes out in the results is not what you’d expect from the reputations.

There are a lot of black families in the area, they wouldn’t stand out at school. Again, the reputation says the whole area is crawling with gang culture, but I haven’t seen any evidence of it after living here for several years. The schools are not something I know much about as I have no kids, but I believe the schools are average rather than excellent, but again, not as bad as the word one the street would have you believe. Also, in my area (which is 10 mins from Abbey Wood station, but actually Thamesmead/Erith by address) there are some religioius primary schools which do better than the others.

It is accepted that the area is known to be deprived, but it is having a lot of money poured into regeneration – a brand new sports centre and youth space called The Link are about to open in walking distance of the train station. There are good transport links with the DLR reaching Woolwich, just down the road from Abbey Wood, which itself is serverd by the train line out to Dartford and in towards Charing Cross and Cannon Street. There are plenty of buses, including the N1 night bus.

Most people will tell you the area is rough and undesirable. Check for yourself more closely rather than just listening to the claims. My neighbourhood is friendly – strangers smile and say hi in the street, but because of a combination of concrete construction housing and a bad reputation, the cost of houses in this area is very, very low.

So in short, the area has problems, but they aren’t nearly as big as people would have you believe and I think overall it is a good area to live in.

I actually surprised myself with the crime rate figures. Do go and check them out for yourself!

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Thames crossings

Thamesmead hit the news again last week with regard to yet another scheme to help the denizens across the river. This time, though, we’re talking a ferry crossing rather than a bridge or a tunnel. I’ve heard rumour that this may be in order to replace the Woolwich Ferry, which surprises me since I’d no idea it was going anywhere.

The whole thing is wrapped up in a lot of politics, and there is a disproportionate amount of comment in the press surrounding what people in Bexley think about it all. The plans were announced by Boris Johnson last week, and many say that it’s an attempt to appease those he angered by cancelling the previously considered bridge. It seems, though, that the plans don’t come to much more than hot air at the moment. The whole thing is meant to happen within ten years – which is a long time to wait, and as yet it seems no funding has been secured.

As a resident the ten year part of the whole thing makes it seem like something vaguely surreal. I have no idea where I’m going to be in my life in ten years time. I’m reasonably settled but I don’t really have much idea what’s around the corner. Even those who would welcome the crossing are unlikely to get excited about something so distant – kids age and change massively in ten years, people retire, redundancies happen. I can’t get excited about something so far away.

Excited? Well, kind of, yes. I think it would be good to have an extra way to head north without getting closer to the city than I already am. It would be good to see journeys that don’t involve trains and tubes into London and back out again if I want to visit somewhere likey Leyton. I think I might well use such a crossing, while it’s counter-intuitive to go to Woolwich for that ferry service. Whether it would serve me as a foot passenger, I’m not sure. It would depend somewhat on cost. Free? Covered by my Oyster travelcard? In that case it’s a possibility. Although it still depends somewhat on the onward travel options. The crossing would reach between Gallions Reach and Silvertown, which is not especially convenient for me in the southern part of Thamesmead, but it is likely to affect the town as a whole. Assuming the roads can cope with the influx of traffic (and I like to think, maybe naively, that such things have been thought through), it should put the area back on the map and let it be known for something more than being a failed new town and that crime ridden area where all of A Clockwork Orange was filmed because it had the right reputation. (Actually only one scene was filmed locally, and it bestowed that dubious reputation on the area, rather than being the inspiration and, well, come on, it was decades ago!)

What is promising, to some degree, is that good transport links make an area more desirable, and when there are enough residents they make demands. Perhaps Thamesmead Town might start to resemble more of a town centre, and less of a minor retail park bolted onto a village centre. I believe there are around fifty thousand residents in the area but we have no cinema or significant leisure facility. We don’t have a weekly market. Worse, there’s not even a bank. And for a place that’s so often linked with the word “deprivation” you’d have thought there would be a job centre, but no, residents have to go all the way to Bexleyheath for that.

It’s not awful, though. The train service gives us Dartford ten minutes down the line to the east, and Woolwich five minutes to the west. There are buses serving Woolwich and Greenwich.

In terms of leisure facilities, it will be interesting to see what the new initiatives, The Link and the Sporting Club shape up. We have a modest library and a small leisure centre with a swimming pool.

I’m reasonably confident that should this crossing come to pass it will do good, but I feel that Cross Rail is our biggest hope. Only time will tell for sure.

Some example stories regarding the transport plans:

http://www.london24.com/news/transport/thamesmead_ferry_crossing_too_little_too_late_1_1176666
http://londonist.com/2012/01/new-east-london-river-crossing-within-10-years.php
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/9474569.Bexley_Council_welcomes_plans_for_two_new_crossings_across_the_Thames/

 

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No, the OTHER Thamesmead (2 of 2)

Although Google alerts give me plenty of food for thought when I’m considering content for this blog, it’s not the only source of information. No, I also use the google non-alert, otherwise known as plain old searching.

The bizarre thing is that after the first result, which is a cobbled together bit of information supplied by Google’s own mapping and a wikipedia article, the next item has nothing to do with what you’d probably consider the “real” Thamesmead.

Instead, you’re greeted with a link to Thamesmead Online which sounds like exactly the kind of community hub you might be looking for if you run a search as generic as “Thamesmead”. In fact, the site is not only quite clearly not a community information source or communications hub, but a company selling janitorial supplies, but it’s not even based in Thamesmead, instead boasting an address in New Cross. I can only assume that the company’s roots are in a start up that outgrew Thamesmead but kept its name. Odd, though.

More intriguing yet is the next hit on the Google search, which leads me to Thamesmead School where, it boasts, “Learning comes first”. That’s all very well, but since schools don’t tend to move premises and keep their names, I’m left baffled as to why the school holds this name. It is based in Shepperton, Surrey. Admittedly, they have more claim to a name linked to the Thames than a property development in North America, but you’d have thought that they would also have more insight into the existing town, and possibly they might have heard of some of the malignant claims attached to it. But they chose the name anyway, and they have a far more professional looking website than the office bathroom and kitchen supply company.

Perhaps they should hook up and the school could get its paper towels and staff room supplies from its namesake.

The next search results are a mixed lot of far more relevant items. There are some Flickr photographs, some details of the football club, and a link through to Trust Thamesmead. It’s a pity they’re ousted from the top spot by interlopers.

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No, the OTHER Thamesmead (1 of 2)

I have Google alerts set up to tell me when there’s anything new happening in Thamesmead according to the big wide world of the web. A lot of what comes up is football related – I won’t be covering that here, I have zero interest in football. Amongst the rest there are all kinds of little snippets of interest, but one of the oddest is the regular real estate updates.

Now, it’s not uncommon to find that there are adverts for houses, flats and maisonettes in the area coming onto the market, but amongst the links to Rightmove and needaproperty.com lie some adverts for the likes of realtown.com

I’d usually link to such adverts, but by their nature they’re going to be short lived, so hear’s a copy/pasted sample:

Another Bowie, Maryland Short Sale listed By Exit Bennett Realty. If you are interested in information about the Short Sale process please Call Steve Queen for your personal consultation at (202) 367-4348.

8815 Thamesmead Court Bowie, MD

It seems property in Thamesmead Court is often available, and surprisingly, in this case it’s a house that actually mirrors houses in our own Thamesmead quite closely in style. There’s a three floor, tall and thin profile to the house, a combined kitchen and diner, and three bedrooms, with proportions roughly matching those over here – unusual for America as I understand it.

You have to wonder what inspired the name, it’s doubtful that most residents of the area have ever even seen the Thames.

 

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A video of Thamesmead (first in a series)

Once again, the text introduction falls into the cliche description of how Southmere Lake played host to scenes from A Clockwork Orange, but this is a fun little video that also brings in the more modern Misfits and plays with the area visually. I’ve no idea of its provenance but I am guessing it’s a piece of coursework.

Thamesmead on Youtube

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Bridges!

It seems that there are plans afoot to potentially resurrect a previously dead scheme to add a new crossing to the Thames, one which would link Thamesmead and Beckton. This was apparently first mooted some years ago and quashed by the Mayor, Boris, in 2008 citing a lack of funding.

Now, it seems there may be a reprieve for the plans, although it remains a “maybe” and converstation continues to surround whether it’s likely to be the previously considered bridge, or a tunnel, or possibly another ferry crossing.

I’m in two minds as to whether it’s a good plan. I regularly use the Dartford Crossing. Well, semi-regularly. I have a car but it doesn’t see a lot of use, tending to take me for 250 mile round trips and involving a good spell on the M25 each time. I vaguely resent having to pay to leave home, but looking at the plans and knowing how the congestion in the area works I doubt the new bridge would significantly impact me in terms of being something I’d use.  I’d rather head away from the city centre and pay than suffer heavy traffic to avoid the charge. Perhaps it would open up the potential for better bus routes to and from the area, though, and I have no real insight on how much use it would be to locals.

What concerns me personally is how much direct effect it would have on the local environment’s pollution levels, and whether the roads leading into the traffic routes across the bridge are set up to cope. I guess wiser people than me are on the case, and it was concerns about inadequate traffic modelling in the past that led at least in part to previous cancellation. It’s a story I’ll be keeping an eye on, and vague ideas that it might happen one day are as far as it’s progressed so far.

I’m interested to watch opinions offered from each side as I’m clearly under-informed on the matter to date.

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Trees to be planted in Birchmere Park

A friend of mine lives in Walthamstow and recently extolled the virtues of a local scheme that had people up early in the morning and turning out in droves to plant trees in the area. It looks like it may well have been a part of the same scheme that will see a Thamesmead park follow suit early in 2012 (January 28th). The ambitious plan is to set twelve thousand trees growing so that they will later form a barrier to the Eastern Way road.

This is run by a charity known as Trees for Cities who are in this instance working with Gallions housing association, Trust Thamesmead and the GLA.

Not only does this seem to be a much more cohesive plan than the “green points” scheme in terms of having a real impact and being sustainable in years to come, but the event is set to be an entertaining day in and of itself, with live music and face painting being touted as some of the attractions.

I got in touch with Lucy Swan for more information (07540 789 383 or email lucyswan@margaretlondon.com) and she passed on the following information:

– Starts 11am-3pm (Saturday 28th January)
– No need to book but if people need more info then Polly Jarman polly@treesforcities.org is the one to contact
– No entry fee, completely free.

 

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Bexley’s Green Points scheme

There’s a recycling initiative going on locally in an attempt to reduce household waste. The full story seems to have been dropped in press releases and reported all over the web on sites such as letsrecycle.com.

What appears to happen is the amount of rubbish in an area is measured as it is collected, then several months later it’s measured again. If the amount has reduced then the residents in that area get some “green points” which can be exchanged for local goods.

Call me a cynic but it seems to me that earning £2.50 isn’t going to be much of an incentive over three months, and any perceived change is more likely coincidence. I can’t fault the general level of access to recycling around here. Glass, plastics and paper are collected separately from main rubbish, as is garden and food waste, and it’s not a massive amount of effort to sort things into the appropriate piles. There are large tanks into which I could deposit clothes and shoes if I wanted to, and the bins are emptied reasonably regularly (recycling goes weekly, other waste fortnightly). It’s easy enough that I’ll do it through wanting a good conscience, not because there might be a paltry reward down the line.

I’m sure it’s all very well intentioned, and quotes like this one abound:

Councillor Gareth Bacon, Bexley’s cabinet member for environment, said: “We’re the first council in the country to participate in the Local Green Points scheme, and it’s very exciting to see Bexley residents and local retailers getting behind it so quickly.”

 

But I can’t help feeling that this must be costing more than it’s acheiving and is ultimately doomed to disappear from the headlines silently and be forgotten within a few years. Don’t get me wrong, if it opens up to me in my house just down the road from the flats that are participating, I’ll sign up. But I see no great rewards in my future or overall change in my behaviour imminent.

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How I ended up in Thamesmead

In the early 2000s I moved to Peterborough in the belief that my work was going to be going there, and with the fallback position of it not being too expensive to commute from there to London and pay a mortgage. As it turned out the fallback plan was the position I found myself in.

I bought a modest but quite nice house, then remortgaged to do up the kitchen. I paid a lot for my commute but it was ultimately worth it and Peterborough was a reasonably quiet unremarkable area where my trip to the station each day involved cycling alongside a river.

I went through a redundancy or two, and then secured a new job with a big broadcaster. Meanwhile, the trains changed hands once or twice and the fares rocketed. It got to the point where I was spending nearly as much on travel to work as I was on my mortgage payments and the costs kept escalating. Since most of my social life was based around London I decided, with the encouragement of many friends, that it was time to start considering relocation. However, a couple of spells of house sitting for friends and trying out different commutes left me less than enamoured, and despite having many friends in Croydon there was no way I wanted to make it a home, especially when considering the size of property I could get for my money.

My sister was looking to move house and we came up with a plan whereby she and my niece would move in with me. In the end this didn’t come to fruition, but it set me looking for a three or four bedroomed place. I wanted each of the three of us to have a bedroom of our own and a spare room for guests visiting.

I got to know the Right Move website very well and started to run searches that placed my workplace in the centre and searched for properties within twenty miles with at least three bedrooms and within my budget.

Three areas came up. South Ockendon, Barking, and Thamesmead. The prices in South Ockendon were strangely low and led me to scratch my head a lot. The prices in Barking were more realistic but I didn’t like the layout of the houses I could afford since they tended to have the bathroom attached to the kitchen downstairs. That’s fine for a single person but not so great for a family or for guests who need to trail through the living areas with a towel around themselves after a shower.

I visited South Ockendon and discovered why the prices were so low. The concrete houses there were falling apart and mostly in dire need of repair or at the very least a fresh coat of paint – but most were well beyond this. The whole area looked run down and unpleasant and I had to practically step over a burnt out motorbike wreck lying to the side of a pavement. I was somewhat put off.

A basic floor plan of houses in my area

I heard bad things about Thamesmead. People said it often smelled bad. They said it was crime ridden. The whole area was described as ugly and run down and full of gangs. The pictures of the houses supplied by Right Move weren’t inspiring from the outside. Thamesmead is known for its concrete townhouses, high rise flats and maisonettes. But I looked a bit closer and discovered just how much house you can get for your money. At the time the going rate was around £160k for a four bedroomed place. These were proper sized bedrooms, though, not little broom cupboards with beds barely jammed into them. There was a bathroom upstairs on the second floor, and a cloakroom at ground level. Most came with a garage. Some came with two. There was a lot of storage space.

I considered some of the three bedroomed places, but despite being of reasonable size, they seemed pokey in comparison and didn’t have the garage.

I wasn’t enamoured of the outside aesthetic at first, although it’s kind of grown on me. It didn’t put me off, though. I figured I wasn’t planning on spending much time outside my house staring at it, and the insides were fine.

When I visited to view places people were friendly and engaged me in conversation. One day I arrived stupidly early for a viewing and decided to sit outside in a grassed area and wait before knocking. Some men came to clear some junk from a local garden, but the garden gate was locked. After some lengthy conversation they decided to scale the fence and unlock it from the inside. The neighbours watched with concern and one lady warned them, from her window overlooking the garden, that they had better be there for the reason they said they were, she was watching them. There were kids playing outside with bikes, and people wandering around blatantly displaying their mobile phones as they spoke into them. This was not the gang-controlled, dangerous, potential for mugging kind of area I’d been warned about.

I discovered that although the area isn’t on the tube, the train service is pretty regular, and there are buses that go to Bexley, Woolwich and Greenwich. There’s even a night bus that drops me ten minutes from home.

I checked out the crime figures and they were marginally higher than Peterborough’s own, but the population is vastly higher. The shopping situation wasn’t ideal, no giant Tesco or Asda within walking distance, but there is a Lidl and there are corner shops like Costco, and a medium sized Morrisons is just a ten minute ride away.

When I viewed my house I knew immediately that I wanted it and put an offer in right away; it hadn’t even been advertised in the estate agents’ windows at the time. It was kind of ugly, but I liked it anyway, and it was near the woods, in easy walking distance of the station, and very well maintained. One bad thing was the mortgage side of the story.

Mortgage lenders like people to buy bog standard brick built constructions that match the general idea of what houses look like. When people ask to borrow money for a concrete property the concept that springs to mind is that of normal terraced or semi detached shaped houses that didn’t originally have bathrooms. They’re the kind of thing that was thrown up to house the bombed-out families at the end of the war, and they’re sagging and crumbling and the paint is peeling and they have bathrooms tacked onto the kitchen because that’s where the water supply is. Exactly like the places I was looking at in South Ockendon. As such, the assumption is that concrete is bad and mortgage lenders don’t want to touch it with a barge pole in case it falls over.

Thamesmead wasn’t built at the end of the war, it was conceived and begun in the late 60s. The concrete is in perfectly good condition and could well last longer than many brick built places. When it was first put up there were issues with damp and leaks, but they were solved around forty years ago. All the same, mortgage lenders furrow their brows and shake their heads at non-traditional builds. Except Halifax and Bank of Scotland for some reason. And luckily my old mortgage was with Halifax anyway so it went quite smoothly from that perspective.

And that is how, in September 2009, I found myself living in Thamesmead and replacing a £4575+ travel ticket with an Oyster card, reducing my commute to somewhere in the region of 15 miles, rather than 85.

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A rough plan

Building a readership for a blog is no easy task, and until there is some compelling content, what can possible bring readers back? For that reason I don’t intend to start working hard on pulling in viewers until I have a small body of articles available. Until then the site gets to grow organically.

The subject matter will be focused. I don’t intend to start talking about what I do at work, Tescos trying to take over the world or the new iWhatever unless it’s directly relevant to Thamesmead and the surrounding area. My own personal view of “the surrounding area” may vary at times, so I may talk about the Olympics or the riots in Woolwich but I will attempt to make this interesting for those with an interest in Thamesmead.

I live in the area of Thamesmead immediately north of Lesnes Abbey Woods, after which the local area got its name – the train station I use for my weekday commute is Abbey Wood station, while my address is actually Erith. I’m in London travel Zone 4, but have a Kent address. I don’t necessarily know what’s going on in the more northern end of Thamesmead, but I’m always looking for views and information.

What I say here is my own opinion and views. I do not speak for my employer, I am not a sock puppet for some politician or an advertising machine. I will, however, present content from sources that fit with this little “manifesto”.

I will attempt to update the blog weekly, preferably more often. I want to explore the past of the area and document changes as they happen. I’ve only been here for three years but I don’t see myself leaving any time soon.

I believe the Crossrail project will change the area, but let’s see if I’m proven wrong. I want to find an audience and hear what other people think of the area.

Let’s see if this little project can live up to those expectations.

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